The Super Fuck-Off Shield
That’s what one dominant woman I know calls it.
It’s the look she gives guys when she wants the creepy ones to stay away from her when she’s at a kink event. She admits that it probably keeps the non creepy ones away as well.
I have one friend who has perfected the Super Fuck-Off Shield so well that she can make a guy turn around as he’s approaching her with one look.
The strange thing is, I’ve seen women put up the shield and then later hear them complain that there aren’t any good submissive men to play with.
So how does one convey interest to play without projecting the creep factor?
A dominant friend posed this question recently and she didn’t know the answer. It’s one of those you-know-it-when-you-see-it kinda things.
When I first moved to New York I was horrible at approaching dominant women at kink events. I’d walk up to someone, introduce myself, offer to buy them a drink and when I brought it to them it was like I wasn’t even there. They’d take the drink and move on.
I was apparently creeping them out.
I never made the mistake of doing what some guys do and just walk up to a woman and ask if I can worship her feet or if she wanted to play with me. I knew that part was creepy.
After a few drink-and-disappear situations, I decided it was best to just not approach at all. After all, not approaching gives me the same result as approaching and I get to save my beer money if I don’t approach.
Economics wins again!
There have been times when I’ve stumbled into a conversation or two and I always wonder how to broach the subject of playing but never did.
I thing it would always come out sounding like this:
“Yeah I know, that sub-prime mortgage thing is messed up. So do you want to beat me or something?”
Or
“Soooooo…yeah…..umm… is there anything you’d like to do…to me??? Or…on me?”
Or
“Hmm you know what? I’ll bet you a dollar you can’t beat me until I’m a puddle on the floor. C’mon, put you money where your mouth is. I probably have 45 cents in my pocket right now that says you can’t.”
Either way I sound like a tool.
I know the trick to getting vanilla women. Vanilla women are easy, just act like you have options or that you could care less and that’s pretty much it. It makes me sound like a total ass I know. I only learned this after I gave up dating vanilla women and trying to introduce them to the joys of a submissive guy. As soon as I gave up and stopped caring, they started showing interest.
It doesn’t work that way with dominant women at kink events.
Probably because they have options and could care less.
21 Comments
Axe,
I am a fan of your blog, however I can’t take it anymore.
Read this book:
“The Game” by Neil Strauss.
It will help you in ways that I can’t even begin to describe.
– A Fan
Ha. Brilliant. I have never managed to perfect the super fuck-off shield, so I invariably end up nodding and smiling while some sad man tells me the story of his recent divorce.
That’s… just not true. Having been a pretty vanilla Average Female in the past, dudes that don’t seem to be interested in me haven’t gotten very far. If someone acts like they have no interest in hanging out with me and could be doing a shit-ton of other things that would be 10x more fun than hanging out with me, my response is (was) usually something along the lines of, ‘okay, you really don’t have to hang out with me, i could go now if you’d like,’ and that’s been the case with most of my girl-friends as well. Why pursue someone that very obviously would rather be doing something else?
I find most women who are aware of their power over men have a way to keep less desirable ones away. I’ve always approached openly dominant women in a very subservient manner: eyes lowered, head bowed, with a respectful request to speak. If a woman says, ‘no’ than I just respectfully back away after thanking her for responding to me. If she engages, then that’s great.
john
We do have options, but so do you. It’s the desperation and the poverty mentality that sends out the creepy vibe. Plus, well, creepiness.
Dominant women do become attached. We do hurt. I’ve learned the hard way that a relationship with a submissive man still requires that we both treat one another with dignity and respect. Early on, I used to think that the men who served me and begged to be beaten weren’t real relationships. But that’s not true. Household chores, even without physical contact, can be sexual. Sometimes it’s more rewarding and energizing for both parties when everyone keeps their clothes on. But it’s still sexual.
I notice and observe how someone interacts with people in general. Especially, how they interact with people they do NOT view as potential dates or partners.
If he is a submissive man – how does he interact, for example, with other submissive men? Is he polite and friendly towards people in general? Or does he give a cold shoulder to everyone but those he imagines he might want to date?
You can favourably impress a person not only by the way you speak with her and interact with her.
Don’t underestimate that.
Ya know fan, that’s a good suggestion for someone who’s struggling meeting someone in a new area – especially if they’re shy.
The book certainly is highly regarded on Amazon. 4.5 stars with over 500 reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Penetrating-Secret-Society-Artists/dp/0060554738/
Aarkey,
I read the book a while back and it answered alot of the questions I had with dating.
Alot of the same ones that are being discussed here, such as:
1) The “fuck off shield” and how to get past it, and whats going on.
2) Also why pretending like you don’t care actually works.
3)Or why buying a drink on approaching a woman is about the single worst thing you could possibly do.
After reading this particular book and few other ones, anytime I see men and especially submen complaining about not understanding women, I just want to shake them.
So yeah, in summary: READ THE DAMN BOOK!
best of luck,
-A fan.
I’m a bit worn out on hearing about how hard it is to find a FemDom . My question is where are all the male subs who want real relationships ?
Hi all. First of all, thank you for the advice.
I’ve read the game several times. It certainly would do the trick in the vanilla world.
I’ve tried to put it into play with dominant women in the past but something always gets in the way….not sure.
I think I have to agree with Kudzu. What I would like to see is a man who sees me as a human being first and a dominant woman second (or maybe even fifth). Maybe it’s my hippie pacifist mother’s fault, but I don’t start ordering random people around upon meeting them. (I also don’t have magic radar that can pick out submissive men in a crowded room so how would I know whom to order around?)
I think the best way a submissive man can approach me is the same way he would approach a vanilla woman — respectfully pointing out a shared interest such as cooking or impressionist paintings, and asking to engage in some non-committal, non-play activity such as a coffee date.
*Snorts* Fuck the Game. You want two books that will help? Read the 48 Laws of Power, and the Art of Seduction, both by Robert Greene. THAT advice can help in any situation, vanilla or otherwise. While some of the advice is a bit mercenary, once put in practice, they help.
If you absolutely promise to get them back to me, you can borrow my copies. They have notes too.
Not entirely sure my responses are applicable, but at least for me, it’s a lot harder to not come off as a creep if someone hits on me right away. If I see you and immediately think you are hot and I want to play, then hitting on me will get good results. Of course, in that case, I may hit on you first.
For all other situations (if I haven’t noticed you, or don’t immediately want to jump you), hitting on me right away puts me off. This is because I feel, rightly or wrongly, that you can’t possibly be liking me for me if you hit on me so quickly. So I feel kind of like a replaceable cog. So the best way for someone to appear non-creepy is to not hit on me until you get to know me more generally. And of course, even then, you might be out of luck, but at least I wouldn’t think you’re creepy. Also, I think at least for me, buying me a drink strongly implies that you’re hitting on me. If it were a group situation, where everyone’s buying drinks for the crowd, that’d be one thing, but if someone comes up to me and offers to buy me a drink, I’d consider it a bit anachronistic but also a come-on.
There’s also this sense of pressure that sometimes exists, if someone really really really want me to say “yes”, that puts me off. This is why pretending not to care works – it lets off on the pressure that I feel from all the subconscious cues you’re giving off trying to get me to do what you want. Striking that balance between “you are so perfect please please pleeeeeaaaase” and “I don’t care what you do, bah” is key. Somewhere around “mmm, that’d be really nice, but I’ll be fine either way” is what I like.
Hello Axe,
I really enjoy reading your journal of a lifestyle, SM male. (esp since I know you. You’ve eaten my beef…or was it the fish?). Since I consult a lot of single, kinky men, I have often thought how difficult it must be to date in the NYC SM scene from your end, since it was damn chaotic for myself, as a lifestyle and professional dominant woman. *past tense due to current steady.
Gad. Games. Save it for roleplay and psycho drama. I pretty much agree with what Jade has written, except the last paragraph baffles me a little.
I’ve dated some really great men and women whom I’ve met at clubs and play parties. But I do recommend scouting the classes, S&M film festivals, and other kink venues, where decent conversation is more likely to be heard. Upon meeting in a club, I’ve always been more interested in talking about common interests besides the BDSM connection that is apparant due to the surroundings. Talking about SM interests initially is like talking about sex right away. I’ve always wanted to know that the suitor was interested in other parts of my life besides the archetype.
At the club: Don’t offer to buy the drink until a conversation has been well established. By the way if a woman turns away after you’ve bought her a drink, it doesn’t mean you’re creepy, it means she’s a user. If you meet someone in a club, offer to exchange email addresses. (asking for a phone number can be a little creepy). Literary seduction is hot, esp since you’re a great writer. You’ve already met face to face so the anonymous internet dating creepiness factor is banished and that is when the SM interest-list can be worked in.
However, if you are just looking for a bleeding, screaming, duct tape’d night-til-next-afternoon time, then just do your best to look like boy-meat. If you are brazen, write “Please break my skin, not my heart” or something silly like that on your chest and that way you are not only advertising for a sadistic predator , but one with a sense of humor, as well.
Super fuck-off look. double gads. I know I’m being a hypocrite with a medusa-look on my website, but when I see the perma-scowl on fem-doms I tend to: (a)steer clear (b)laugh and (c)assume that something is itching in their latex.
xxY
Jade and YIN: Exactly.
Axe, please forget about the pickup artist strategy crap.
Whatever happened to getting to know persons as persons???
It is precisely this “I’m sorting total strangers into cagetories, and strategically approach whatever human object might fit into the ‘dominant woman’ slot, whilst ignoring everyone else” that creates creepiness.
Socialise with people in general, NOT just those you sort into the “might want to play with” category, and get to know them as people.
Just to clarify, I know that I was suggesting reading a book about dating from the stand point that it’s clear Axe has repeatedly talked about how difficult he finds the dating scene. I can’t speak for “a fan” but judging by his response post here, it looks clear to me that his suggestion is not about playing “a game” but finding out more about why whatever it is that Axe is doing isn’t working as well for him as he’d like (though I pop in today and see a post about a dom woman talking about coming over to just use him as a sex toy… so maybe Axe just isn’t patient.)
Either way, I do think that the single most important thing in dating is confidence. However you display it. I had none until I was about 19, and since then everything changed. It happened one night when I decided not to give a hoot anymore and just “go for it” and from there, I have found that most of the time it isn’t too hard to strike up a conversation and maybe more.
Either way, I do think it is a bit disappointing to see so many posters here jump onto the assumption that people are talking about anything more than learning about how to approach someone in a bar/club setting.
Beyond that, I agree with a great many posters sentiments here. I do think that it’s invaluable to seek people as friends in your life. Many times a great friend is not the person I met, but the people who already know that person.
Confidence, a positive outlook, a sense of humor, a sense of style… if someone can find those things in a self help book titled “blah blah blah” – then maybe that’s a good book to read if they repeatedly are complaining about something.
*shrug*
My friends and I are sci-fi gaming geeks, so we call it my “Repel Creepy, 10 feet.” I have it on automatically unless I am approaching people myself. The disadvantage is that it works on everyone whether they’re creepy or not. It’s not that I hate everyone (yet) – it’s that I don’t really know how to turn it off all the time.
It’s been a bizarre maze for me in the search to find someone to beat recreationally and educationally in the large City I’m trapped in. For one, I don’t date, anybody. Dating is a relationship paradigm I am all to happy to leave in my past (Arthurian-corporate lies!). It’s far too limiting for me, and narrows down the list of possible interactions and structures them in a way I find really unappealing.
I honestly think the fact that “dating” is the de facto option for romantic and/or sexually/emotionally intimate relationships is half the reason no one can find anything satisfying.
But as for the creepiness factor: As a newly admitted domme, I don’t have the super-fuck-off-shield (maybe because I haven’t been in the scene long enough to get jaded) simply because it limits my options, and I’m a starving sadist (I’m also conditioned to be polite to strangers). On the other hand this often means I get stuck in conversations with creepy mandoms who assume that because I am a scantily clad, small woman, I must be a submissive. This I think of as “hit and run.” As soon as someone hits on me, I run. Hitting on people is stereotyped, and no one does it well. They use one-liners or start touching you without permission (and I mean that for anybody of any orientation).
I will say this for creepiness– desperation and neediness turn me off. I am currently a desperate, needy dominant sadist, but I don’t sink my claws into every submissive man I meet because I know exactly how off-putting it is. It turns me off from family, from vanilla relationships, and kink relationships. I don’t want to be needed, I want to be wanted. I don’t want to need someone, I want to want them. For me that’s a huge difference.
I agree with the sentiments above of just getting to know someone as a person before asking for kinky relations. If you’re at a kink venue, you know you’re both kinky so you don’t have to bring it up. If a dom/me has had pleasant verbal intercourse with a sub, then I think a lot of them would be far more willing to consider beating a total stranger.
Wow! I am so fascinated by the context of this post: Even between dominant women and submissive men, it is *still* the men who do the approaching. This seems to be the assumption by both the men and the women.
I find this surprising and counter-intuitive. So maybe I am wrong. Am I?
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